Paweł Graś on the activities of the VAT Mafia during the PO government. New recording of Owl and Friends


It is September 2013, two years ago there was an increase in VAT and yet tax revenues are declining. About the recording that went to, Paweł Graś, then government spokesman and closest collaborator, Donald Tusk, talks about how the VAT Mafia is taking place in Poland, describes how it operates and admits that criminals are not punished. He also jokes that he can give advice to a colleague who has a treasure. "The production of invoices is better than selling drugs," he says.

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Sowa i Przyjaciele, September 8, 2013. Jacek Protasiewicz (deputy minister, absent and tired voice), Tomasz Misiak (businessman, former senator of the PO), Paweł Graś (deputy of the PO, spokesman for the government) and Maciej Witucki meet (member of the Fiscal Council of LOT).

You raise a number of political issues, especially with regard to internal competitions on the Civic Platform and the threat of losing power for the then new leader in research, law and justice. A hot topic is the confrontation between Protasiewicz and Grzegorz Schetyna on power over PO in Lower Silesia.

– There will be different sections, from what I see in the regions, they will simply be crowded – says the party's then secretary general, Paweł Gras.

In response, Tomasz Misiak tells how strong the emotions of the Protasiewicz-Schetyna dispute are.

– I had a conversation like I can support Jacek, who works with my tormentor [Donaldem Tuskiem, który wyrzucił Tomasza Misiaka z Platformy Obywatelskiej, gdy wyszło na jaw, że firma Misiaka bez przetargu dostała od jednej z państwowych agencji kontrakt wart miliony złotych – przyp. red.] he says, to which Paweł Grash responds with a laugh.

Donald Tusk's closest collaborator during the conversation briefly summarized Slawomir Nitras. – I recently had an argument with him, he is a psychopath because he is – says Paweł Gras and consolation Protasiewicza: You no longer have exit, you have to fight, you can not give up. Somehow it will be.

In what Paweł Gras says about the opposition of then, you can see the respect and fear of Jarosław Kaczyński. Gentlemen, comment on the recently concluded forum in Krynica, talk about the proposals of the PiS business president and his 500 Plus program, which are "very dangerous and highly thought-out" ideas (Gras).

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Are you kidding about privatizing LOT and scams about VAT better than selling drugs?

During the meeting, you also talk about plans to sell LOT. Pawel Gras is convinced of the importance of state-owned airlines, but he is skeptical of this concept and is inclined to sell LOT.

– It will be important and strategic if Polish airlines can make a decision in the future, for example, Warsaw-Vietnam, Warsaw-China – one of the interlocutors explains, but in the opinion of government spokesman Donald Tusk " you want to LOT in Polish hands, where you're going to pay 3,000 for a flight to Paris, you want a flight to Paris for 800 zlotys? "

When it comes to the issue of the VAT gap, the growing problem with VAT charging and the activities of tax mafias – you are reviving.

"These VAT frauds, wherever I hear about organized crime in Poland, are not drugs. The production of invoices is better – says Maciej Witucki. – It is not absolutely profitable to produce drugs, only VAT – Paweł Gras responds. "That's a problem, because you know, it's like a Colorado beetle, from area to area. Today is gold, steel bars tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, lime, then rapeseed oil, so you know, for everything, you can absolutely anything … – he explains to his colleagues.

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Paweł Gras: I do not want to, the finance minister does not want to introduce my ideal idea of ​​how to improve the state budget. Income tax on deductible expenses.

Meeting participants: (laughs)

Paweł Gras: It's so simple, is not it? It's a simple thing, no.

Tomasz Misiak: I have to tell you that the idea is simply brilliant and we would immediately be Angola again. I mean, there is something called a curve … Laffera, which says that when there is a moment of inflection, then … (…) Your suggestion is exactly at the end.

Maciej Witucki: However, such a small matter. For me it's the subject of harassment, we talked about it.

Paweł Gras: What harassment through the treasury, really. I can give you this subject … (laughs).


Tomasz Misiak: Do you remember renting an apartment?

Maciej Witucki: Yes Yes. (…) The problem now is that I speak only as an electorate. And as an electorate, this lady calls me once a year and I live well with it, you lived well. She knew I was overwhelmed twice, but we always did. [niewyraźnie] 100 zlotys and active sadness, than how to get there to work, remove some roles. PLN 100 and yes … The problem is that this year you called me the second time. "Mrs. Joasia," a beautiful young woman, much loved. "Mrs. Joasia, but why do you call me the second time?", "I'm sorry, you know, we've been ordered to speed up the grace period, which is why [niewyraźne] by this active grief. "And, of course, twice 100 zloty, I … She then keeps telling me," buy a brick "(?), What I buy," what are you going to do, leave me wrong It's okay, it only happens twice, I think – there are voters getting these signals, right?

Paweł Gras: You know, everything … there's always something for something. An alternative to harassment and the search at all costs, so it's a place to get something, right? Tax or something.

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Maciej Witucki: These VAT frauds, wherever I hear about organized crime in Poland, are not drugs.

Paweł Gras: Absolutely no more profitable with the production of drugs, only VAT.

Maciej Witucki: Invoice production is better

Paweł Gras: That's a problem, because you know, it's like a Colorado beetle, you know from one area to another.

Tomasz Misiak: You create a network of hundreds of companies …

Paweł Gras: What a hundred ??? You do not have to create a hundred, well, what you are! The problem is just find out … today is gold, steel bars tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, lime, then rapeseed oil, then you know, for everything, you can do anything, absolutely … and before …

Tomasz Misiakthe machine will come

Paweł Gras: … and then in the end you have a problem, even if you take everyone, you take the whole network, you take everything, you have to prove that everything was conscious and bad faith. And prove to the seventh company in the chain that she knew it was used to deceive the tax administration and acted in bad faith. And to get them, you have to prove it.

Maciej Witucki: And how illegal – is there no legal structure that could be created, stating that the separation of the hands from the steering wheel in the car during police control is …?

Paweł Gras: Well, no, unfortunately. Well, unfortunately not.

Tomasz Misiak: This is generalized. I am a huge VAT payer, I paid millions of VAT a month, hundreds of millions of VAT a year (…) I do not have VAT costs (…) so the number of offers, companies that want to optimize that. ..

Paweł Gras: Yes

Tomasz Misiak: Dramatic. This is a real problem. The guest comes to you and says, "Sir, I'm going to sell your computers. You know, after all, you're going to get rid of yourself in three months, you'll pay me half the VAT on the invoice, and I'll pay these computers. . ". You understand, it will bring you, I'll bring you this equipment. That's one thing. They bring used computer equipment.

Paweł Gras: Yes

Tomasz Misiak: Tell me how the employee coming to the company will check if computer equipment is used or not?

Paweł GrasOK. Yes.

Tomasz Misiak: And tomorrow I can buy, for example, two or three million zlotys of computer equipment, where my guest brings me the equipment undone by value, I do not know …

Paweł Gras: Yes.

Tomasz Misiak: … five thousand zlotys, or how many, because they collect anywhere for free, so that too … some companies pay extra to take money from them – and issue an invoice for 3 million zloty. You have 600,000 VAT, you give this guy three hundred, three hundred, you carry your pocket. And you have income tax additions because the guy sold you … And that's what you know … Finding later how he did, what he did with it, etc.

Paweł Gras: Taaa audience … specialists, miracles of invisibility. Do not stop …



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