BRASÍLIA e RIO – In speaking to the Commission on Constitution and Justice ( CCJ
) of Senate
with the prosecutor Deltan Dallagnol
, the Minister of Justice, Sergio Moro
, said on Wednesday that he had no attachment for the job and that, if there were proven irregularities on his part against the Operation Lava-Jet,
will resign. The former federal judge defended that the website "The Intercept Brazil" handed over to the authorities the full content of the content that underlies the reports published so far, so that the full information comes to light.
Moro reiterated during the six-hour session that the dialogues shown so far are "completely normal" and stated that he can not recognize the authenticity of the material revealed by the site. For the minister, the disclosure of the dialogues is the result of the work of a group of criminal hackers.
"I have no attachment to the position itself. The site that shows everything, all the talks, and if there is irregularity, I leave the post, "Moro said when responding to Senator Jaques Wagner (PT-BA).
The MP of the PT suggested that there were abuses in the conduct of the Lava-Jet, of which he himself was targeted. Wagner mentioned that shortly after receiving the visit of the Federal Police (PF), a delegate granted an interview with the accusation of a deviation millionaire. At the end of the report, the Petista questioned whether Moro did not consider that Lava-Jet could have made mistakes and asked if he would consider leaving office. It was then that the minister admitted that he would do so if there were proven irregularities on his part.
Watch the audience with Moro in
Moro reminded the committee that
had the cell invaded
at the beginning of the month, but that, so far, there is no evidence of access to the contents of the device. Intercept claims to have received material from an anonymous source before this episode. The minister said he suspected that the invasions of the authorities' cell phones did not come from amateurs.
– I confess that this time I was surprised by the level of villainy and baseness of these people responsible for the attack, the criminal daring to invade or try to invade telephones of prosecutors of the Republic, including the phone number of the Minister of Justice, and use this not for the purpose of public interest, but rather to undermine anti-corruption efforts.
The facts cited by Moro and Dallagnol in leaked dialogues
The minister pointed out that the Federal Police investigation is underway, but has revealed suspicion that the invasions of cell phones of prosecutors and judges were the work of a criminal group.
"It's not a teenager with bones in front of the computer, but a structured criminal group," Moro said. – In my opinion, in particular, although the facts are being investigated, there is a criminal group behind these attacks. After all, there are a lot of people who have suffered invasions or attempted intrusions, which points to the possibility of not being an isolated hacker.
The former judge said he may have said "some things" that have been disclosed, but that others have caused him "strangeness." And noted that the content may have been tampered with.
"I do not have these messages on my cell phone anymore. I used the Telegram in a certain period. In 2017, I ended up thinking that that application of Russian origin was not a very safe vehicle. And I've been on the Telegram ever since. I do not have these messages to be able to say whether that is authentic or not, "he said. "There are some things I might have said." There are some things that make me weird. These messages can be totally or partially tampered with.
'There is no collusion'
Moro once again affirmed the normality of relations between magistrates and parties, especially, according to him, in criminal law, since the judge is responsible for evaluating the legality of investigative acts, as well as condemning or acquitting the accused. Moro denied that there was any collusion between him and the prosecutor Dallagnol and mentioned that he acquitted about 20% of those reported by the Public Ministry in Lava-Jato.
"There is no collusion. There is disagreement, said the minister noting that he does not see any infractions in the messages published, even if they eventually have confirmed authenticity.
In August 2018, Moro himself acted as judge in a Petista inquiry. He was accused of receiving a bribe from Petrobras. An investigation suspected of receiving $ 591,000 by the senator, as a bribe from Odebrecht, was filed in March this year. The PGR assessed that there was no evidence to pursue the case.
In April 2017, Emílio Odebrecht reported alleged box 2 for Senator Otto Alencar (PSD). However, against Otto Alencar were not opened proceedings and he was off the list of the Minister of Edson Fachin, Lava-Jet's rapporteur.
In March 2019, the Federal Court of Ceará authorized Cid Gomes' bank and tax secrecy breach as part of a Lava-Jato investigation to determine the granting of tax benefits to companies of the J & F group of brothers Joesley and Wesley Batista , in exchange for campaign donations. Gomes would have asked for R $ 5 million in exchange for the credits.
According to the PGR, evidence pointed to transfers of the Hypermarcas group to the senator. The investigation showed that the prosecutor Nelson Mello lied by saying he did not know which parliamentarians were benefited by the payments through a lobbyist. He was also quoted in the award-winning affiliation of former executives of construction company Andrade Gutierrez and Odebrecht.
In 2015, Anastasia debuted in the Senate floor to defend herself from the charge of receiving $ 1 million for the 2010 campaign, by action of Alberto Yousseff, who denied the bond with the senator. In 2016, the filing of the investigation was confirmed. Odebrecht's statement cited undue advantages in electoral donations between 2009 and 2010.
The informant Pedro Novis pointed out irregularities practiced by Odebrecht during the administration of Esperidião Amin in the government of Santa Catarina, from 1982 to 1987. Novis said that people connected to him received a bribe for the construction of an avenue in Florianópolis. The Public Prosecution Service assessed that there was insufficient evidence to proceed with action.
Investigated for crimes of passive corruption and money laundering. It was the target of the "Compensation" operation, after testimony of the employees of the J & F group who said they had transferred about R $ 43 million to the Progressive Party, in kind payments and official donations, through Nogueira, in the investigation known as "quadrilhão do PP ".
Investigated in the STF for involvement in Lava-Jet, he is guilty of other actions for damages to the treasury and condemned for illicit enrichment by diversion of funds in the old Sudam. Odebrecht officials said he received $ 1.5 million to campaign for the government of Pará in 2014. In 2018, STF minister Edson Fachin opened the seventh inquiry to investigate the senator.
Regarding the latest Intercept report on what would be Moro's concern with investigations into alleged box two in the campaign of former President Fernando Henrique Cardoso in 1996, the minister explained that the case in question did not go through court of the 13th Federal Criminal Court of Curitiba, of which he was ahead, and suggested that the conversation may have been tampered with.
– The case did not even pass through Curitiba, left the Supreme directly to São Paulo, where the judge received. This conversation, about which I do not remember, may have been, but not necessarily with those terms. There may have been tampering, "Moro said.
Meet the 27 senators who listen to Moro about conversations with Dallagnol
The first senator to question Moro was Weverton Rocha (PDT). He recalled that last week the
minister went to the game
of Flamengo and CSA in the Mané Garrincha stadium and asked how he would feel if the referee of the match combined with a player to score a penalty and then put on the team shirt. Moro said messages with Dallagnol may have been tampered with, but they are still "completely normal".
'No advice, only interlocution'
Moro repeatedly pointed out that he did not remember what he had talked to or not with prosecutors. He pointed out that he does not even remember the messages exchanged a month ago. On one occasion, Senator Otto Alencar (PSD-BA) asked for a point of order and stressed that the minister's memory was not much demanded.
"Because he has a bad memory," he argued. – In the [Pedro] Bial, he forgot the last biography he had read.
Referring to the disclosure that Moro and Dallagnol talked about
the support of the Federal Supreme Court (STF) minister Luiz Fux to Lava-Jato
, Moro told the senators not to see problem in the message "In Fux We Trust" (No Fux, we trust, in free translation). He pointed out that the phrase could mean confidence in the FTS.
"What's the problem of sending a message like that?" – said Moro, with the proviso that he also could not confirm the sending of the phrase. – It seems to me that the vehicle that has released wanted to embarrass the Federal Supreme Court, which is especially serious. Although it is authentic, the content is absolutely unlawful.
Senator Fabiano Contarato (Rede-ES) pointed out that, as a police officer, he could "hang out" in the police station if he had conversations with an indicted lawyer and that the Public Prosecutor's Office knew it. When asked, the Minister of Justice denied that his impartiality was compromised in Lava-Jato trials.
"You, who are middlemen, know that there are normal conversations between judges, prosecutors, police officers and lawyers. The use of the application was only faster exchange of messages, if at all they are authentic. Examining what has been put there, he has no advice, only interlocution, which occurs in the day to day of the forums – he said.
The leader of the PT in the Senate, Humberto Costa (PE), rejected criticisms of "Intercept" and questioned the minister for the disclosure that Moro would have affirmed Dallagnol
fearing the former President Fernando Henrique Cardoso
in research. He criticized the then magistrate to have spoken about a process that was not his business. In quoting the alleged abuse of the judge in Lava-Jato, Costa asked if he was "in the service of a political project" and charged that he "apologized" for "voiding" the votes of those who wanted Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva in the presidency. Moro reaffirmed that he acted impartially in cases of corruption and did not want to respond to the Petista's rejoinder for containing "offensive statements".
The CCJ hearing in the Senate, which was scheduled to begin at 9 am, began eighteen minutes late. The minister had 30 minutes of initial exposure and then went on to answer questions from the parliamentarians. I live
anticipated a call of the committee
and was willing to give clarification on the messages, whose revelation he considered criminal. Upon arrival, he avoided the press and retreated into a waiting room before entering the CCJ at 9:12 am.
Check out the Sabbath point by point:
Hackers acted with 'villainy and baseness'
The hacker attack on the cell phone of Prime Minister Sergio Moro in early June would have involved three phone calls received by the device, according to the former judge. The caller ID would have shown Moro's own number, which states that he did not answer the phone calls and informed the Federal Police (PF) about the incident. This would be a sign that the line may have been cloned, as the minister said;
Moro assured that he delivered the cell phone to PF shortly after the attack and that he had no reason to refuse to leave the device under the care of the investigators;
According to the minister, other authorities also handed over their cell phones for the PF's expertise (there was no mention of who did it or not);
Parliamentarians and journalists would also have been targets of hacker attacks, Moro said. He preferred, however, not to mention names, since the investigations run under stealth. It is known, however, that a GLOBO journalist had the account in the Telegram invaded;
The minister stressed several times to believe that "Intercept" gave a sensational interpretation to the dialogues and defended that the press vehicle delivered the material to the authorities;
The former judge said he believed the attacks came from a criminal group. Moro said he was surprised by the "villainy" and "baseness" of the attackers: "It's not a teenager with pimples in front of the computer, but a structured criminal group," he said.
Contact with parties would be 'common'
Moro reaffirmed that he can not guarantee the authenticity of the messages, he thought they may have been totally or partially adulterated;
The minister assured that he and others who read the messages released by "Intercept" did not see any infraction in the dialogues. According to him, it is common for magistrates to communicate with police officers, prosecutors and lawyers;
In response to Senator Rogério Carvalho (PT-SE), Moro assured that he did not deal with magistrates of higher courts on issues related to Lava-Jet cases – and said that assuming that this happened would be, on the part of the parliamentarian, to make a serious prosecution of superior court ministers;
In commenting on the phrase "In Fux we trust" (which he would have sent to Dalagnoll in reference to their trust in the actions of Minister Luiz Fux of the Federal Supreme Court), Moro stated that he does not see anything too much in the passage and that, if authenticity , shows only a belief in the Court's smoothness. Check out more Sergio Moro images at Senate CCJ
Moro said that his conduct at the head of the Lava-Jet processes was impartial and that the operation affected "several political agents with different flags", of left and right specters;
In response to Senator Humberto Costa (PT-PE) on what would have been a request for the task force not to spoil the former president Fernando Henrique Cardoso, Moro stressed that the case in question (on a supposed two box in the Tucan campaign to the presidency in 1996) was in São Paulo and did not pass through his hands;
In Costa's rejoinder, the parliamentarian suggested that the situation would be even more serious if Moro had expressed his opinion about a process that was not even underway in Curitiba. The senator suggested that the former judge's performance was selective. Moro ranked questions and affirmations as selective and said he would rather not answer them;
When answering Senator Tasso Jereissati (PSDB-CE) about eventual excesses committed at the head of the Lava-Jet, Moro said that it considers normal that an operation in which it acted for four years is subject to divergent opinions. He emphasized that it was normal that this happened mainly in the case of former president Lula, because he was a former president with high popularity, but said that the process was in accordance with what was determined by law.
Invitation before the second round
Asked by Senator Weverton Rocha (PDT-MA) about the invitation to join the Bolsonaro administration, Moro said he was probed by now-Minister of Economy Paulo Guedes before the second round of elections in October last year.
According to Moro, his first contact with President Jair Bosonaro would have happened only on November 1 of last year, after the second round vote.
Russian application mistrust
Moro said he stopped using the Telegram application in 2017, but was unable to specify in which month this occurred. According to the minister, the main reason for abandoning the use of the service was the suspicion that there had been interference by Russia in the United States elections that year. As the Telegram is a service of Russian origin, as Moro pointed out, he would have decided to stop sending messages through the service;
In answering a question from senator Marcos do Val (Citizenship-ES) about possible interference from other countries, to which hackers could be on duty, Moro said that no hypothesis is ruled out and that he believes the "criminal group" has high purchasing power , has no amateur character and is well articulated.
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